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Interview with Hamed Sinno and Haig Papizan of Mashrou’ Leila

Interview by Anamika Singh and Iltimas Doha.


It’s a Friday night at Le Poisson Rouge in New York. Many languages are in the air: Arabic and English being the most prominent. There’s talk of a Mashrou’ Leila snapchat filter. When the band appears on stage, the crowd goes wild. Hamed’s voice fills the room. Immediately, the crowd grasps it and reacts to it. The band’s latest album, Ibn El Leil is an ode, anthology and reaction to this very moment, the ritual of nightlife. Heavily referencing mythology the album navigates Beirut nightlife and it’s many facets. With ballads such as ‘Kalam’ exploring a lovers arms, while ‘Maghawir’ narrates a nightclub shooting. Here in LPR, the audience is proof to the success of the album’s sound. It’s undeniable.

Mashrou’ Leila was born from the late night jam sessions in Beirut, Lebanon in 2008. Since then, the band has been selling out tours all over the world. Mashrou’ Leila consists of frontman Hamed Sinno, violinist Haig Papizan, drummer Carl Gerges, bassist Firas Abou Fakher and guitarist Ibrahim Badr. Together, they put on a mesmerizing performance. Alt Citizen got a chance to sit down with the band before their second performance at Le Poisson Rouge where the band spoke to their success and it’s conditions, mused on 3 AM dollar pizza and betrayed their ‘guilty – pleasure’ songs.

Iltimas: Your journey from your first self-titled album to Ibn El Leil has been remarkable, with a wider and wider audience with every album. This no doubt comes with mounting pressure. How has this affected the band and music?

Hamed: In terms of the music, to be very honest, the thing that’s affected us the most has been time. One, you sort of get bored of doing the same thing. We at this point, trust ourselves more than we did when we first started. We mess around with different things that we wouldn’t have necessarily been very comfortable messing around with in the beginning. I’ve actually been reading all the press reviews that we’ve sort of got here. I don’t normally read any articles about the band, but someone said it quite nicely actually, you have to be comfortable enough to trust yourself to make a dance album when you’re an indie band. I think that’s pretty well put, never thought about that before. I mean, that’s in terms of the music, in terms of pressure it gets a little crazy, but I don’t think any of even understand how much pressure is on us all the time, I think it just like happens and explodes every now and then, cause it’s like irrational right? It’s constantly there in the back of your head. It’s cool… I mean whatever it is, it’s very much worth it.

Anamika: I wanted to ask you guys about the branding of the album. The 3D printed mask you guys did, the posters were crazy. Everything was lush and detailed so, where does the inspiration for that come from?

Hamed: It’s mostly based on the lyrics and the music. A lot of the stuff on the album has to do with references to mythology and dealing with nightlife as ritual. The comparison with nightlife as ritual and mythology ended up with what if this is some kind of cult, figuratively of course. At this point we always need to clarify, figuratively, so priests don’t get angry. So everything was based on that. The Calligraphic inspirations and the way the lyrics are laid out are based on certain details in the way Islamic calligraphy works, the fresco with the rituals was based on Greek pottery. That marble statue looks a lot like Renaissance sculptures of again mythology. But yeah that’s where the inspiration came from.

I: It’s very clear that your non-Arabic Speaking fan base is growing and growing rapidly. What do you think about this and how does this influence the way you write?

Hamed: Again, with the music it’s just always about us. I know it sounds obnoxious to say, but like we never go into the room or studio to compose and think about who’s going to listen to it. So it doesn’t really affect anything in terms of that. Apart from anything, it’s a little gratifying I guess, to see that certain stuff resonates in spite of the language barrier, that the performance actually matter to people, the music matters to people and the discourse around it.

Haig: Also our concert, when it comes to this new album, it becomes this kind of visual, performative event, where there’s a lot of dancing and a lot of imagery behind the sets you don’t need to access a certain language to identify with those kinds of things, in the end its music and when you see someone in front of you dancing, see videos of people dancing or a lot of things happening you kind of get a sense of what the songs are about, what the music is alluding to. Hamed, between the songs, he explains a little bit as well. I mean, yeah language can be a barrier when it comes to understanding what the song is about but during the show, which is where most of the non-Arabic speaking audience is introduced to our music it becomes about the performance.

A: Jordon recently imposed a ban on you guys. I read what your mom wrote, that was great…

Hamed: She’s chill.

A: The subjects of your songs, your performances and even the mere presence of you guys as public personas is a point of contention, specifically in the Middle East. How does this affect you guys on a personal level and on a public scale give that you guys are huge public figures by now.

Hamed: Okay…I’m going to show you something right now, and this is actually really fucking rewarding for me and I know that’s a fucked up thing to say but it’s reaffirming to me about a lot of stuff. The issue isn’t just in the Middle East. Here’s what I got today from this guy in America: “Great, not only do we import these people, but they’re also undermining our familial institutions with F***y music #deport” And then he responds “@hamed Indeed openly degenerate F****s that push their shit down the throats of America are oven-able along with Muslims, Jews, etc.” I mean…the conflict isn’t particularly Middle Eastern.

I: Right, it’s global.

Hamed: It’s a byproduct of hetero-patriarchy which is more or less everywhere. I think, I think for a lot of people there’s this idea that tolerance…and that part I find the most dangerous right, like there’s the homophobe who’s just going to be straight up with you and like say ‘I think you’re doing is wrong’ or the racist who’s going to say ‘I don’t like your race’ or the sectarian person who’s going to say ‘I don’t like the idea of 5 men on stage from difference sects working together’ or the overzealous religious person who says ‘you shouldn’t analyze how religion can be problematic,’ whatever the fuck it is, some people are very vocal about it and then there’s the other version of it, where it’s like ‘I’m okay with you being gay, but I don’t want to see it’. That’s when the question of representation becomes very polarizing for more people, when you are talking about 5 men who come from different religions, who have different sexual orientations, who have different forms of gender expression, who sit at the cusp of very different identity intersections and the fact that we’re able to get representation in spite of that is what’s been most problematic for people. But I don’t think that’s just in the Middle East, I mean we’re getting that here. Like, ‘OH, you’re a Muslim, cute, get deported but don’t talk about It.’ and once you’re talking about it, that’s when people come for you. I don’t know. It’s like…I sent that picture of those tweets to this guy I’m sort of dating and he was like “wow that’s horrible” and I’m like “No it’s not, like actually it drives us in a lot of ways, this isn’t megalomania. I think there is a lot of work to be done and this gives me, all of us a lot of drive.

I: On a lighter note, what are some of your preshow rituals?

Hamed: What are some of our preshow rituals?

I: If you have any…

Hamed: Ohh yeah we get really–I mean I get most crazy I think out of all of us

Haig: He gets really anxious and stressed

Hamed: Yeah, I have like full-fledged, like I’m generally not a socially comfortable person. But the idea of having like, to socialize with a room full of people that are looking at you, is like fucked. And then the voice is a very weird instrument as well because it’s not like you’re pressing a button or putting your finger somewhere, it really you and you’re ear. As an instrument it changes on a daily basis like I’m not going to sound today, the way I did yesterday because the water levels in my body are different, like it’s literally that sensitive. I get so anxious–

Haig [interposing]: He used to get so anxious before every show. But not anymore. Not anymore.

Hamed: I get so anxious that I change my clothes, but it was totally totally psychosomatic, like I’ll change my clothes like four or five times and then go back to what I was wearing at the beginning before every show because it feels like something you can actually control. I have this very weird tea ritual, I travel with like a stock of tea, I’m serious. I have like licorice root tea, there are like 2 or 3 songs that I have to sing before I go on stage to make sure my trails and that I can hit the note that I want to in my head. Haig starts riffing backstage and we always want to slap each other for it because were giving each other the wrong notes. Carol does the same exact thing without failing every freaking concert where he tries to get under your skin and piss you off because he sees you’re stressing. And there’s always a bottle of brown rum backstage.

A: Okay, this is a serious question, have you guys been to 2Bros in New York?

Hamed: 2Bros? No, what’s 2Bros?

A: Well speaking of ritual, I would say it’s the New York drunk ritual. When you’re drunk, its 3 AM and you’re hungry you get a dollar slice pizza.

I: Yeah, it’s like the staple dollar slice.

Sinno: I’ve had Artichoke Pizza.

I: That’s like the other end of the spectrum.

I: I mean it tastes like cardboard but…

Hamed: I don’t know about 2Bros but I’ve had an unnecessary amount of 3 AM pizza, because I sort of get caught up in head during the day and this keeps happening with the band where we’ll go on stage and they’ll be like “Hamed, have you eaten” and I’m like “you know, no I didn’t have breakfast” and it’ll be like 8pm and they’ll only notice then, and it’s just like always a marathon, so then we get off stage and really need to eat and nothing is open apart from pizza places and go in and act like it’s my fourth meal of the day and have like 5 slices of pizza and impress the fuck out of someone. Done.

A: I feel like we’ve all done that at some point.

I: That’s what 2Bros really means.

A: Why do you guys start in finish in New York, because I know last year when you started in the states last time there was also a show in New York and back here and again this time?

Hamed: It’s just circumstance it’s not something planned but there’s also something pretty about sort of doing the whole circle right again this isn’t intentional it just felt like kind of cathartic to come back here–

I: End where you started.

Haig: It’s a lot easier to fly out of New York and LPR than anywhere else I guess like in the US especially from like Lebanon. Otherwise the connections are… insane

Hamed: Insane. And a bit crazy

A: And you guys are going to Canada after this right?

Hamed: Vancouver, Montreal, Toronto

I: So you guys have toured all of the world and pretty well seasoned travel at this point. Yet all of you are still in Beirut yes? [both nod]. The city is a present force in your songs, in different ways, what about the city draws you and keeps you there.

Hamed: Tricky question to ask at this point. Look I mean… I think for a lot of Lebanese people, being Beirut is always this weird thing where 30% of your consciousness in the city is directed at the idea of being elsewhere and that’s very much is part of being there is imagining life abroad. But ultimately I mean… You know, our work is there, we have a setup over there. My mother is there, the rest of our families are there. It’s hard to move. I don’t think Beirut is you know a permanent condition for any of us, but for now it’s easier.

A: So you guys have had a ton of shows. Favourite show so far? I’d say the leg of this tour.

Hamed: Boston was pretty good..

Hamed: Yeah. Last night was fucking amazing actually, for us at least.

A: I think for the crowd too.

Hamed: The crowd was great actually which is why it felt so good. The Fillmore show was pretty good. The Hamilton show was really good.

Haig: LA was really good

Hamed: generally been a lot of good concerts like except for 1 or 2

Haig: except for 1 or 2

A: Tell us about it!

Hamed: Um…let’s not.

Haig: They were really unorganized I guess.

Hamed: We’ve had some roughly organized events, but that’s to be expected and then learned from. And when you’re doing this for a month and there this much pressure, it goes without saying that you pull a bunch of arguments as well but it’s just touring. It’s never smooth.

I: Most of the time it’s never smooth. And you pretend it’s smooth. And you’re like look at how everything turned out perfectly but before the show is like super intense. And then there’s a lot of shit going on. And you’re like whoa sound isn’t right, oh lighting isn’t right, this band member’s missing.

Hamed: Yeah! I don’t even mean that shit. I literally mean us strangling each other. But that shit as well. Which is always the case, it’s never ever smooth on stage. When it is you have more reason to be frightened. If you have a great sound check, I feel like we’re going to fuck up.

I: If it’s not the sound it’s something else. What are your guilty pleasure songs?

Hamed: On stage?

I: No, just personally. Like mine’s Paparazzi by Lady Gaga.

A: Dancing Queen, ABBA.

Hamed: I fucking hate ABBA actually, I don’t know why I hate ABBA.

I: Have you heard the new Portishead cover of the ABBA song. It’s really good!

Hamed: I have not…

I: It was for some movie…

[Carl Gerges enters conversation]

Hamed: Guilty pleasure songs? I have a lot but I also don’t feel guilty about them. I really like the new Zayn album. I actually think the production is fucking bomb.

Haig: The new Beyoncé album is very nice, Lemonade.

Hamed: It’s alright. There are two or three tracks are really great, I like the politics behind it and all of that. But I don’t know, I like the last album a lot more.

A [to Carl]: What about you? Guilty pleasure songs. Just like a song–

Carl: Ah Zayn, yeah Zayn, definitely Zayn.

Hamed: I even like some of that Bieber shit when the last album came out. I’m serious.

A: It’s hard. We’re all Beliebers now

I: Some of us.

Hamed: There’s a really good article that came out of I think the Atlantic, drawing comparisons, analyzing how Bieber’s approach to music differs from let’s say One Direction. And they said something kind of clever, like he’s actually, you know, it’s very obviously something that was written by, by someone who is white and did not know about the history of the music that Bieber is sort of using with like sort of, what’s it called like surf or something, can’t remember what the genre’s called, but basically said this guy was trying to employ new approaches to the way production is working and the kind of sounds he was using, One Direction was actually still trying to do stuff that appeals to as wide as net as possible. So they called him the future of pop, either way it was uninformed because like it wasn’t new music, it was just music that wasn’t public because it came from People of Color.

Haig: Apparently there’s a collaboration between The Weeknd and Zayn.

Hamed: Oh yeah? I like the Weeknd

Haig: Me too.

A: Do you ever see yourself performing and writing in English?

Hamed: It’s a weird question, right? Because, for really long time I think the reason we chose to start writing in Arabic is because we felt like there were things we wanted to hear when we were growing up, in Arabic, that we couldn’t access, right? And that was sort of the main drive.

Haig: We’re nonexistent.

Hamed: Yeah. But then at this point, this has constantly been the question since the band started touring abroad. It’s always been like how come you haven’t done anything in English, when clearly [gesture to self-]… first language, right. And in that way, when I write I actually write in English first and then I translate back to Arabic. And most of the writing actually happens in during the translation process, not as anything else. I grew up speaking English, my Arabic got better through the band.

Hamed: But it’s just always been like a sort of very sort of transparent marketing thing. We’re going to do something in English because we’re going to try to cast a wider net. At this point though, I think with the way shit is happening, I think it’s a… at least for me, we haven’t really spoken about this, for some reason I feel like its there’s a lot of stuff that needs to be said in English as well, but I guess we’ll cross that bridge if we ever decide to.

I: It’s definitely not a nesccasry thing, but–

Sinno: I don’t know, I also really would like to hear a song in Arabic get on a pop chart for once and not on a world chart, when it’s not fucking world music.

A: That’d be very cool.

[Firas Abou Fakher enters conversation]

I: Welcome! You missed an earlier question, what’s your guilty pleasure songs? They mentioned Zayn’s album.

Firas: Mine’s probably worse than that.

Hamed: You kind of like the 1D.

Firas: I do like the 1D.

A: That’s a good pick. That’s pretty embarrassing.

Firas: I’m not embarrassed I’m trying to be proud.

Hamed: It is Pride Week…

Hamed: That shade was so complicated, I’m so impressed with myself right now. So impressed.



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